Lately there’s been a lot of nostalgia for 90s alt-rock and early ’00s indie rock from New York.

However, there was another music movement that took place between the early ’90s and the early ’00s that people aren’t talking about, even though it was just as popular as alt-rock and way more popular than those early ’00s bands.

Of course, I’m talking about nü-metal. When nü-metal dominated mainstream rock 20 years ago, I couldn’t stand it. And maybe that was the point: Rarely has a genre of music been so popular and yet also so obnoxious to those who didn’t get it.

Looking back, however, my feelings about nü-metal have changed somewhat. Do I feel … affectionate? No, that’s not quite right. But I do feel grudging respect. To talk about nü-metal, I called up friend of the pod Ian Cohen in order to define what exactly nü-metal is, as well as discuss the impact that it had and whether being innovative (which nü-metal was) is the same as being good